Oh Thank GOODNESS for doing this website! I stumbled across it while searching for Clash lyrics of all things. Congratulations. Give the whiners some hell!

let the sissy conversion begin!
here’s food for thought…i just saw the commercial showing that al gore’s new climate change initiative is demanding 100% clean energy in america in TEN (10) YEARS! demand all you want liberals but my question is the same one that the “flight of the conchords” asked when faced with the challenge of doing something special for all the ladies of the world – “HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?!”

al is basically demanding that you make his wallet 100% fatter in 10 years by investing in wind farms that HE owns.

and trust me folks, i am all about clean energy and care deeply for the environment. i even studied environmental science for my undergrad

jonathan you’re missing the point – it’s not whether or not it’s possible, but that we actually try. Currently this derelict white house and congress is doing NOTHING. Tax incentives are the fuel for the fire of energy innovation – and instead of rushing to get them passed, the koolaid drinkers are debating the pros and cons of off-shore drilling. Al Gore is a marginal player in energy independence – forget him and help rally the people to achieve a goal worth achieving.

And buy Thomas Friedman’s excellent new book “Hot, Flat & Crowded.” He hits the point perfectly: http://www.amazon.com/Hot-Flat-Crowded-Revolution-America/dp/0374166854/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222444210&sr=8-1

great point taylor and thanks for the book recommendation. i’m all for tax credits for energy star upgrades in the home and energy conservation but is our non-transportation energy production really that bad? i can tell you what’s not helping – the hault in production of CLEAN nuclear power. and YES, the clean energy industry will bring thousands of jobs but at the cost of how many coal mining communities and families that DEPEND on the industry and have for decades. are these folks certified and qualified to build and maintain wind farms? we can make coal cleaner and focus on a more gradual shift towards renewable energy while encouraging smart energy conservation with a heavy emphasis on the economic incentives to motivate consumers to comply. we must diversify our energy portfolio but only at the pace that the economy and market can stand.

does wal-mart have the right idea with a goal of selling 100 million CFLs in 2 years and placing them on all of their stores endcaps…well that depends…how are they planning on educating their consumers to dispose of these 100 million mercury filled bulbs in 5-7 years when they DO burn-out?

al gore is blurring the lines between energy sectors in his new ad campaign. petroleum is NOT a significant source of non-transportation energy generation in the US. we should be more concerned about reducing our dependence on foreign oil.

Jonathan – in response

1 – is our non-transportation energy production really that bad? – Yes. Look into the inefficiency currently at play and the myriad of opportunities that come from fixing it. Deeper than that though – we need heavily in this area so China doesn’t raise 2 billion new Americans the same way we did it.

2 – But at the cost of how many coal mining communities and families that DEPEND on the industry and have for decades? – You have to get past this. Innovation always kills less efficient industry, since the beginning of business itself. Those families will have to adapt like everyone else.

3 – we can make coal cleaner and focus on a more gradual shift towards renewable energy while encouraging smart energy conservation with a heavy emphasis on the economic incentives to motivate consumers to comply. – Agreed, but this does NOT include “Drill Here Drill Now” hysteria that won’t yield short term benefits and will only hamper us long term.

4 – does wal-mart have the right idea with a goal of selling 100 million CFLs in 2 years and placing them on all of their stores endcaps – Not really. A noble effort but one day in china knocks out any possible effect.

5 – we should be more concerned about reducing our dependence on foreign oil. – Yes, by doing absolutely everything possible to build alternative energy industries NOW. Raising cafe standards (side note: Reagan caved and lowered them during his term). Also why did the US EXPORT more oil this year than in the last 15? That’s just one of many pieces that has to stop if we’re really going to get serious about this. And we do need to get serious about this right now – I don’t think many realize the shitty situation we’ll find ourselves in come 2020 if no action is taken.

isn’t 2020 when Ted Turner said that global warming would force humans to turn to cannibalism?
that would suck…

John-
Something that strikes me about your ideology graph is the spot where you put “level for tolerance and respect for christianity”. From my experience tolerance and intolerance of Christianity comes from all ends of the spectrum. Case in point in my family: My father is a republican, conservative and very active in his Christian church. My father in law is a liberal, a democrat, and very active in his Christian church. John as you have heard me quote before you are my favorite conservative besides my Dad (who for the record was a Agnostic Liberal in his youth!). But I don’t get your assesment. In my opinion it seems kind of a defense mechanism on your part, no offense of course. Care to enlighten?
G

Why certainly Grant!

I firmly believe that there are two VERY distinct groupings of what we are calling “Liberals” (progressive/left-wing/Democrats/whatever):

1. The normal, everyday individual who gets up every morning as we all do. Who form their opinion based on life experiences and by whatever means they get their news and propaganda (knowingly or unknowingly) from.

2. The professional Liberal. Those who are elected, chosen or paid to play on that team and work towards very specific goals and intitiatives.

I FIRMLY believe that a vast majority of those who fall into group #1 have little to no idea what group #2’s actual beliefs and goals are. If they did… they would not identify themselves as “Liberals” anymore.

The left-side of that graph represents group #2.

The spirit of this site is to point that out… and hopefully convert some of group #1 into becoming one of the cool kids! (you know I luv ya Grant!)

Ok- Do you feel that group two is intolerant and prejudiced against Christians? If so, how?

It’s bigger than just prejudice and intolerance. Group #2 is fundamentally at odds with Christianity. And for one very simple reason… authority. Part of Group #2’s core belief system is that there is no ultimate authority over one’s self. How dare there be?!?

To Group #2, there are no absolutes. There is always a “but”. Always an exception. Always an excuse.
Christianity is pretty simple and straight forward. The rules are laid out pretty clearly. But that’s the problem for Group #2… rules.

Rules require an authority.

As for examples of prejudice and intolerance…
The ACLU, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, Jessie Jackson, Hollywood.

Rest assured… well most definitely dive deeper into this whole topic. I sincerely believe that if you can bring yourself to strip away all the shallow, nit-picky and trite political/pop culture BS… it’s plain as day. There is most definitely an impressive and deliberate anti-Christian tolerance population.

And I’ll put money down that very few of them own any Nugent on CD.

John thanks for doing this. It seems fairly open for a conservative based kinda thing. Not trying to attack anyone personally but ………………..

we are FINALLY getting to send the conservatives last golden child back to his ranch. In my humble opinion he has been by far the biggest disaster of a President that this country has seen. Certainly in my life time.

Conservatives like to refer to the left as the “people who drink the Kool-Aid”. However they seem to ignore there own sheep like behavior. Here’s one of MANY examples ……….remember the last election when Bush frames himself as a decision maker (or a deciderer to use his vernacular)? That was a HUGE rallying point for the conservatives to get behind Bush.

Turns out he couldn’t initially search any farther then his own attorney when nominating a supreme court justice. Doesn’t seem like a lot of time was put into that one until he HAD to.

Wall Street is in trouble? Well let’s just ask for a giant no strings attached check for $700 billion dollars and see if that flys. Doesn’t seem like a lot of thought went into that one either.

ANYONE can make decisions! However one would think that when they’re big decisions you might want to actually put thought into them.

I could go on and on but my point is this. I’m a Christian and I dig Christians as a whole. However I have a major problem when the religion is used (or abused) for political purposes. And now it seems like the conservatives have already moved on to their next golden child (Sarah Palin) and hope everyone forgets what a TRAINWRECK of a precidency their last champion presided over. And more importantly seemed to just look the other way when that champion acted in a very non-Christian way.

Thanks again for the open forum among your kind John. You give conservatives a good name

John and John G,
I find it amusing that ‘Christian’ is a self proclamation, yet we discuss it in a concrete way. We all have a perception of what a Christian is and we all differ in that. If these discussions include all that claim to be a Christian, then I call bullshit on at least 50%.
I hereby deem myself ” A Secular Neptunian Grand Ruler of all that I survey”… doesn’t mean a thing does it?
I would love it if Christ would send a list of those that HE deems Christian so it would be easier to have parameters in this discussion. That is all…

CARRY ON.

T

Tony.. I got to hand it to you… you breached a subject that I’m glad “someone else” started instead of me! You are too correct in pointing out that there are ALOT of people out there claiming to be “Christian”. Whether they are or not can only be judged by one greater than all of us. What I am endlessly amazed at is how some can claim to Christian spiritually, yet support and empower individuals, organizations and efforts that are INTENTIONALLY trying to suppress their very faith.

Yeah… I’d love to see Christ’s actual guest list too. I just hope I’m on there with a “plus 3″!!!

John G… thanks for the kind words. After I spend this evening wining & dining my beautiful wife on our 6th anniversary… I’ll respond to your other points. Glad you are here!

Damn! I hate hitting “enter” too quickly!!!!
Correction: .”..some can claim to BE Christian spiritually,”

And John G… one more thing… in regards to the following part of your post:

“we are FINALLY getting to send the conservatives last golden child back to his ranch. In my humble opinion he has been by far the biggest disaster of a President that this country has seen. Certainly in my life time.”

I sure hope you are not suggesting that W or the Bush Administration are or have behaved in anything EVEN CLOSE to a “Conservative” fashion.

Because if you are… my frickin’ head is going to explode.

Boy do we have some stereotypes to smash.

I’m confused

If there is ONE THING I hope to accomplish with this site John G…. it’s to get everyday folks like yourself to please STOP equating Republican to Conservative.

The Bush Administration has grown the size of the Federal government to colossal size. NOT CONSERVATIVE.

The Bush Administration’s spending was, is and will continue to be out of control. NOT CONSERVATIVE.

The Bush Administration has completely ignored illegal immigration and our borders. NOT CONSERVATIVE.

The Bush Administration has done NOTHING to battle the ACLU, The Department of Education or the United Nations. All enemies of freedom. NOT CONSERVATIVE.

The Bush Administration uses the term “Bi-partisan” a whole lot. NOT CONSERVATIVE.

The Bush Administration is backing this frickin’ “bailout.” NOT CONSERVATIVE.

Point being (in case you missed my point) The Bush Administration is Republican… meaning they are “Washington” and completely indistinguishable from The Democrats and therefore “Liberal” by nature.

And I appreciate what you’re trying to accomplish JGUST.

I can’t help it but I just get a feeling that conservatives (not you Tony) are trying to duck Bush and hope everyone forgets how much they used to just think he was just the bestest moral leader/deciderer we ever did have. I mean Dick Cheney is a big hero of the conservatives isn’t he? And he brought out the absolute worst of the worst part of the whole administration!!!!! ……..and probably should be in jail.

With all of that being said I’ll step away from the whole Bush factor and we’ll have to agree to disagree (or absolutely forget the ‘04 election ever took place and how he won it). Because we could really go on and on and he’s almost out of here.

I really am trying to (without sarcasm) get a feel for what a conservative truly is.

The feelings I’ve had for conservatism in the past is that they’re kind of like libertarians without the individual social rights aspect.

Am I on the right track?

I don’t think ANYONE in Washington now, or in the recent past (Reagan being an exception) is or has been a hero of Conservatives.

Perhaps at the very beginning of Bush’s 1st term… there might have been a glimmer of hope in Conservatives eyes (similar to the Palin thing now) due to the fact that Conservatives have been STARVING for representation since Reagan.

However… 9-11 happened and pretty much dominated Bush’s first term. After that died down and life went back to semi-normal, the administration’s true colors came out and it’s been business-as-usual liberal Washington politics ever since.

Conservatism is pretty simple John G:
Small, unobtrusive government in general (Federal, state & local)
Reasonable and fair taxes
Strong national defense
States rights
Freedom of religion… not FROM it
Personal responsibility
…and a complete Ted Nugent CD collection

John G,
Your view of “conservative” is not far from mine… I do feel social rights are important, however, so is personal responsibility. Right now I guess that you can call me a Libertarian, but I am not a member of the party. Most liberals rarely take personal responsibility. That is at the crux of this discussion to me, Social liberties without personal responsibility is an open door for even bigger and more invasive government. W has widened this crack in the door, thus not conservative. Now Wall Street has stepped into the act by needing a bailout… didn’t someone notice the structure crumbling…. of course they did …. but no one was held responsible, thus big government steps in and … …. you see the pattern that I want to stop.

CARRY ON.

T

JGUSTY I distinctly remember someone saying that they would have a blow-up figure on their front lawn of Dick Cheney the way that sports fans have a figure of a football player on their front lawn. Now I have definitely had my moments where circumstances have changed my opinions or I even have “seen the light” in some cases. Have you had a Cheney revelation?

And Tony I agree with you 100%. Personal responsibility is on everyone just like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. But in this country personal freedom (and lots of it) goes very much hand in hand with those responsibilities. i.e. I have the right to swing my arm around and that right ends at the tip of your nose.

Gay marriage is an excellent example where I believe that a religious push within the government crossed the line into our secular government and took away personal freedoms that didn’t even effect the people who tirelessly made sure that those rights were denied to tax paying law abiding citizens.

Legislating morality = Really bad idea

I disagree with you on the “most” liberals don’t take personal responsibility notion though. “Most” liberals that I know are employed, pay their taxes and are going through the challenges of raising children. But I won’t deny that this country is FULL of idiots and I would think that they default to liberal or conservative depending on who’s making the call. Usually the person in question couldn’t define either.

John G:

I am a HUGE fan of Cheney. But not from an ideological or political standpoint. I am a fan of his history. As a professional, he’s accomplished an amazing resume of initiatives and experiences. I am a fan of his conversational ability. One of the best conversationalists out there. If there is one person on this earth who knows for certain if alien life exists… it would be him as he probably negotiated the treaty!

The guy’s only been VP for 8 years of his 67 years on the planet. He’s done a few other things as well.

You really need to be careful of linear thinking.

I’m a huge fan of Reagan too. That doesn’t mean that I’m into football, acting and sports casting as well just because.

So to answer your question… NO. I have not had a Cheney revelation. Still very much a fan.

PS: I’m a HUGE Rage Against the Machine fan too… does that make me a Communist? Nope. It just means I like the flesh of my face being blown off by their now-extinct rawk awesomeness.

And John G:
As for Gay marriage… if one is seeking State recognition to validate their love for another person… I think they might reconsider their priorities as they’ve missed the point of marriage ENTIRELY.

For the record: Gay marriage should NEVER be a Federal issue. It’s a States’ Rights issue and nothing more. Let the power remain in the hands of the people.

You so crazy!!!!!!

I am with you Gusty, as I posted somewhere on these fine pages, state by state, on several issues especially gay marriage.

CARRY ON

T

What if certain states wrote into law that Italian people can’t marry Irish people and used my mother, father, sibling and yours truly as the model as to the reason that those two groups should NEVER pro-create? A VERY compelling model but that hardly makes it constitutional.

I’m a states rights guy too but there is a certain playing field that every state has to play on. If a gay couples taxes are used to build and maintain a courthouse isn’t it their courthouse just as much as it is mine or ANYBODY elses?

John G:

Regardless of the issue, if enough people in a state band together and organize to vote something into law… then so be it. That is the very essence of Democracy and a Representative Republic.

Personally, I’m very glad that no states have outlawed the union of baked ziti and mushy peas. Then I could never take you up on that Red Tree coffee date!

And do you really truly feel that rights and laws should be based on sexual preferences and fetishes? How could they ever be justified and proven? Would states have to issue Gay ID cards? How would one obtain such a card? Would there be a test? Would I get special rights because I happen to like boobies?

Come to think of it… I wouldn’t mind advocating The Mammary Aficionado Act of 2008.

JohnG,
…and if my taxes pay for your child’s education shouldn’t they be taught MY beliefs… (same logic as your gay point, in my opinion)
Just wondering how far this could go…
No Cherokee and Irish weddings …. my heritage….
Stereotypes suck… I need a drink or twelve!

CARRY ON.

T

“Come to think of it… I wouldn’t mind advocating The Mammary Aficionado Act of 2008.” Ladies and gentleman I have SOMEWHERE TO GO!!!!! John Gusty for President!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So it’s OFFICIAL. I’m throwing my name in for the presidency. My campaign platform will be simple:

“Yeah… ‘Change’ can sometimes be good. And Duhhhhh… who doesn’t want ‘Country First’. But BOOBIES are something ALL men can agree on!”

Gusty in 08 – Trick or TEAT? – You Decide!

Playtex and Victoria Secret could donate to your campaign and really give it a lift.

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

and Pam Anderson could be your running mate!

I’d say this race is over!!!!!!

I could here it now

Obama 4%

McCain 46% (safe to say Pam Anderson would finish LOCKING UP the womens vote for him)

and out of NO WHERE

John Gusty with 50% of the vote because EVERY single man in America found there way to the voting booth!

I want a cabinet position since it was my idea!

Instead of ass or elephant, it could be the “beaver” party

I’ll announce my VP running mate at noon tomorrow. It all depends on who looks better in high heels… Tony or John G. Email your photos NOW.

At the risk of sounding as arrogant as Barack … you should bow out gracefully at this point John G….
I am 1 pretty man.

CARRY ON.

T

Hanki & Rob… I’m going to look to both of you to round out he cabinet. One of you will need to head up the Department of Lactation.

John G… you have your work cut out for you!

just got done painting my nails …….photos to follow.

I’m also working on a tee-shirt and bumper sticker design.

And Tony I think I win by default don’t I? Isn’t it somewhere in the constitution that you can’t be in higher office if there’s any Indian in you?

by the way for the record.

I read back some of the posts and saw all of my grammatical errors. But I wint to publik skools so its all good

I’d rather be head of the Lingerie Department.

So what did every one think of the debate? Wasn’t it insightful?

Thank God they just answered the questions directly and to the point without going into big long campaign slogan types of answers

Hey, FOX says McCain won, CNN says Obama won and MSNBC says Castro won!!!

Everybody is full of shit, and I am hoping for a sewage bailout!

CARRY ON.

T

BTW my friends and I are arguing over whether or not Palin would look good in bondage wear … the lines between DEMs, REPUBs, and INDIES are all rising above the favorable point!!!

CARRY ON.

T