Mike,
to quickly start the ball rolling on Zionism.

Having been raised in a Christian environment. While at church I was exposed to both the loving Christians and the “You are going to hell, dinosaurs were ridden by people!” Christians.

One echoing sentiment was just your point.
I have heard several times , “We will never go to war against Israel, they will never lose a war, because they are God’s chosen people.”
That … in many people’s mind is a non-negotiable reasoning to be allies.

I personally want to be allies. (I would love to never need allies … but let’s stay in reality.)
But not because of God in anyway.
I am a survival of the fittest kind of guy.
I will fully disclose, that though I want it as badly as anyone does … I do not think that world peace is attainable. So true confession … I want to be on the winning side simply because I am an animal with survival instincts. This does not mean we all as nations do not err … obviously!

…and away we go…
Bill E I wish that you were around for this one!

CARRY ON.
T

Sad but true – I hadn’t realized that the statistics were so high for apathy in this country. I spent last year working on a local race as Scheduling Director for my candidate. I was amazed at how many people I knew personally that either weren’t registered to vote or just didn’t bother. And how many more we encountered day after day on the campaign trail.

I have to say, regardless of your politics, this election has newly registered voters at an all time high. It has begun to mobilize the otherwise apathetic majority.

My own personal triumph was finally getting my ex-husband to the polls after 10 years of debating with him the merits of voting.

Jane,

I’m sooooooooooooooo glad you are are speaking up. You are one of the most passionately engaged people that I know. And most importantly… you walk the walk. To those who don’t know Jane… let me personally endorse the way she tries to get everyone around her to get involved.

She is VERY inspiring. And she worked extremely hard to get the current Mayor of Nashville elected. Successfully I might add.

Here’s to a strong, well-informed woman!!!

Whoo hoo!!!

Bill E.
I certainly hope that you didn’t read my post to Matt as me thinking Obama is communist.
I do think he leans in the socialist direction and I will stand firmly on that ground.
My posts were to say that many people from all walks of life would take to arms if communism, was being
thrust upon them. Matt was insinuating the Obama/communist correlations … to which I plainly said that it was an unlikely scenario. That is all, nothing more. Just wanted to be clear from my view.

Jane,
I am positive those percentages will change this year if by only a few percent! I guess according to JGusty we have to thank you for being a part of the solution.

JGusty,
Any comments on the Zionist thing. I never had that conversation with you.

I do want to point out that this nation was taken from it’s natural inhabitants. So Zionism and Colonialism is an argument that can be traced back to way beyond the 1940’s.

CARRY ON.
T

Aw shucks JGusty…. You ain’t so bad yourself.

Tony

While I would like to agree with your claim that citizens ‘from all walks of life’ would take up arms if a communist was placed in the White House, I just don’t see it happening. There are plenty of commies in the Senate right now and people have willingly voted them in. Sure, they don’t admit to being commies and only rarely admit to being socialists, but they slip up occasionally and admit what they are. Even if they don’t openly admit it, their policies speak for themselves.

Liberals are socialists, period. They also have many things in common with fascists, like their control of the media, their constant attempts to nationalize EVERYTHING, their defrauding of elections. their attempts to disarm the populace and their indoctrination of our youth.

Hitler would be proud.

That said, Obama is the worst kind of socialist because he openly admits it yet he still has half the nation willing to place him in power. The only conclusion we can come to is that half the citizens in the US are socialists/communists. They will NOT take up arms against Obama or any other commie.

That leaves the other half to do it. Fortunately, libs are anti-gun, so we most certainly out-gun them.

Anybody know of an organization in the Cheatham County area where like-minded folks are preparing for the inevitable? If so, please put me in touch with them.

Thanks.

Matt,
I hope that you are wrong, but I can’t predict the future, so … I’l reserve my judgement.
Keep in mind that the number of voters is roughly 16 to 20 percent of possible voters this year, so that means only half of that percentage is provable “liberal” in your scenario. I think there are droves of people that share your sentiment. Having grown up in the Appalachians I can attest to the large amount of apathetic “right wingers” there that do not vote.
I hope and feel that this won’t happen … but … I’ll never say never. It is strange enough to have this possibility in play….

CARRY ON.

T

Here’s hoping that Matt doesn’t find the organization that he is looking for, because the last thing this country needs is more hate, more fear, and more ignorance….

Matt,

I KNEW a conservative with FULL blinders on would show up sooner or later! The ones that have been on the site so far are brutally independent thinkers which has made it difficult to for me to show that conservatives can be every bit as much of a herd of sheep as any other group.

They’ve been responsible for some of the exact same claims that you just laid on the liberals. You’re comment on fixing elections is comical. How about taking a look at the last TWO elections. Ever hear of Diebold? Kenneth Blackwell? More votes for Bush then there were TOTAL number of voters in a district?

You probably have no idea what I’m talking about because that voter fraud was never mentioned in the supposedly liberal biased media and sure as hell wasn’t mentioned on any of the conservative “truth” radio formats.

Have you ever seen a Christian conservative gathering with lots of kids? They are filling those kids heads with the hate bullshit that you just spewed.

And if you don’t think the last 8 years weren’t an effort to further the “New World Order” aka the ultimate “nationalization” then your blinders are indeed thick.

They are ALL politicians and the people that get anywhere with ANY politician are the ones with money. And chances are that if you live in Cheatham county you don’t have enough to join the club.

And I’m socially liberal and own several firearms Matt. Sorry but Wrong again.

JohnFreakinG

Tony, and anyone else who wants to chime in,

I guess I’m less interested in the labels we place on Obama (socialist, communist, liberal, etc.), or anybody else for that matter, and more interested in the meanings people attach to those labels. I’m honestly wondering why socialism and communism are still dirty words in this country. I understand, and believe in, free-market capitalism, but I also believe that capitalism alone doesn’t address many of the complexities of modern life. I also know that simply paying more taxes into a bloated and inefficient bureaucracy brings its own share of problems. At the same time, I do think that we need a safety net in our country, and that a hike of 3 percentage points in the income taxes of people making $250,000 or more won’t destroy the American spirit or cripple the growth of our economy. It’s obvious that there are plenty of U.S. citizens who believe that socialism and/or capitalism of any degree would destroy life (or at least our country) as we know it, and that many also equate being liberal with being anti-American. But why? Is it simply fear? I want to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that they aren’t just repeating what they heard or read somewhere. So can anybody help me figure out this riddle?

Bill E,
I’ll speak for myself ONLY… by saying, try taking the “labels” off of your canned goods and try to make a decent dinner. Yams and Bean and Bacon soup with a side of pears !!! Yummy! Unfortunately labels are necessary. I could turn this around a ask you what you call Capitalism… I won’t because you have proven to be fair in your posts.

1st of all I am not afraid of the words, I am vehemently against communism as defined in the dictionary because it does not work. I am in no way a fearful person. (my biggest fear is a Pearl Jam resurgence!) You will just have to take my word for that I guess.
Communism assumes that we all have the same work ethic, values, and skill levels. I am a firm believer that all systems of government fail eventually because the weak (herd) out number the strong. We are just animals. Capitalism is no longer working here… because the government got involved. Let’s just assume that we are using Webster’s definition for all to save time. Corporations do not answer to the people, it’s workers or even the consumer… they work with the government, which allows greed without repercussion from the consumer. That is not Capitalism … so the term has failed us all.

Lumping what is fair .. ( healthcare system for all) into socialism is a great ploy for the politicians. Do I think a retired 73 year old that can’t afford a Dr. for a broken bone deserves healthcare … of course. Do I think that a 36 year old alcoholic that fell through his glass table reaching for the remote, deserves for me to pay, through taxes, his emergency room visit compete with ambulance service? HELL NO… because he sold his car for rent money since he can’t hold a job… SCREW HIM! So when you figure out a fair way to do this, you will then receive my support for socialized healthcare.

You will not read an anti-tax rant from me. You WILL read over and over this … paying taxes is OK but a tax that goes to socialized schools, or medicine … without a way for me to determine it’s use is not ever going to get my support.
So we agree that taxes are not to be feared at all. But I want them to go where I deem representative of my views. Fair?
I do not think liberal is anti-American at all, it is simple for me. For the most part I (me alone) think it is an anti-Tony view and, no offense meant, I do not fear you (libs). I am socially very liberal, but with responsibility… problem is we all have different views of what that is.

What I have read most in my life … is religious text!!! But you don’t hear me spouting out fairy tales do you? So let’s not assume that I regurgitate all that I have read. My favorite writers, POE, NIETZSCHE and ANN RICE.
I don’t recall quoting “The Raven” , I don’t recall using “What doesn’t kill us only makes us stronger” and I haven’t bitten anyone on the neck ….
that posts here, anyway.

CARRY ON.

T

Tony,
Thanks for tackling my question. I never asked to take the labels off, I just said that I was more interested in the meanings attached to those labels. I don’t think I said anything about you spouting fairy tales or questioning your ability to think for yourself, in fact I thought I said that I was trying to give all people the benefit of the doubt by assuming the exact opposite of this. In an earlier post, I too pointed out that Communism is a failed system, so we’re in agreement there. I do have a few questions about what you said:

1) “Capitalism is no longer working here… because the government got involved.” Are you saying that there was a time when the government was not involved, and that during that period capitalism worked? If so, when was that exactly?

2)”Do I think that a 36 year old alcoholic that fell through his glass table reaching for the remote, deserves for me to pay, through taxes, his emergency room visit compete with ambulance service?” Are we assuming that this guy has health insurance or not? If not, don’t you think you end up paying for him anyway when he goes to the emergency room for this, or for when he has a cold?

3) What are “socialized schools”?

4) Are you saying that I am a liberal, “no offense meant, I do not fear you (libs)”, or are you speaking to liberals in general? If you are think I am a liberal, so far at this site I think I have avoided placing myself in any camp, or carelessly tossing around the labels liberal and conservative. This again brings up my point about the meaning of labels. IF I am a liberal, what exactly does that tell you? What do I believe in?

Anyway, thanks for answering….

BILL E,

I will always try to answer, thanks for noticing!
What do I think you believe in? Can’t tell , you are playing coy…. not my style…

ANSWERS to:
#1. I mean that when you stop letting the consumer make the decisions it gets corrupt and therefore is more open to greed. Examples: regulated monopolies, bail outs, Gov’t financed housing, paid surplus crops, etc…
I should have said “as” involved… does that make it more clear to my view? I think it stands to reason that if you want definitions of labels each person will bring their own… that is why I speak for myself only.

2. No health insurance. That is why we have failed as capitalists, I do pay for it. Let him bleed .. I don’t care. Let his wife choose a better mate … unfortunately he breeds also in this scenario so I pay for his kids needs through programs. I only feel sorry for the kids. Clear enough …

3. SEE OUR FUTURE, AKA OBAMA’S PLAN. Government financed Pre-school? .. how about the one that prepares my little snot rocket the best way I see fit?

4. Don’t know what you are, don’t care. It would not change my statement.

I feel like we are playing chess, how about more people, Gusty…Mike…Fred…Barney…Wilma?

CARRY ON.

T

Fair enough. “As” helps, though I still can figure out when exactly it was that the government truly let the consumer decide. Maybe the capitalism to which you refer is more an ideal as with the separation of church and state that I keep harping on. Personally I can’t make the logical leap from “government financed” preschool to the government telling me how to raise my kid. For me preschool is something that all children should have the opportunity to attend, and if government-funded schools can help the children in example #2, or any other children unlucky enough to have either bad parents or parents who simply can’t afford to send them to preschool, then I’m all for it. Peace out….

Bill E,
I feel that if the Gov’t has more control over the curriculum they will use that to indoctrinate..

YOU SAID:
Personally I can’t make the logical leap from “government financed” preschool to the government telling me how to raise my kid….
I SAY:
Dress codes, music appreciation censorship … required reading lists …
Then deem me ill-logical if need be.
It was ill-logical to think that Challenger would explode …

At least you try to be fair Bill E, I appreciate that!!!

CARRY ON.

T

I’ll chime in on this one. Although I have a libertarian bend if I were to be labeled, I feel that the party goes just a bit far in minimizing the governments role in our society.

Imagine yourself way back in time and the government didn’t step in and limit the amount of market share that Standard Oil could dominate. Our country would now be the United States of Standard Oil and there would always be a Rockefeller in the White House.

My point is that, although the Feds role has gotten WAY too big, it is the only enterprise strong enough to keep a level playing field among the states, big business, the rich and the poor, etc. Do I subscribe to Obama’s theory of redistribution? Of course not. Every individual is guaranteed the right to PURSUE happiness (as opposed to the right to just be happy and happiness is granted by the government).

As far as education and indoctrination Tony. You’ve brought the subject up several times regarding the governments role in educating our children. There are requirements that you listed that may be “socialized”. However you’re leaving out a key ingredient which are parents. My children may get basic education skills at school (reading , writing, etc ………) but their IDEALS are formed through my wife and myself by the model of the way we live our life, the church that we attend, the way that we spend/save money etc ………………

Now I’m not saying that all parents provide a good example in those areas. I’m saying that you’re examples of government provided education are brought forth as if that education is the only one that our children get. As far as I’m concerned I think government provided education is wonderful! Because back in the old days the ONLY ones that were provided a formal education were the wealthy.

Again it goes back to my basic prob with the conservatives. They bitch when the libs talk about universal healthcare and don’t say a word when big business (the rich) is given the go ahead to destroy our environment to maximize profits.

If that doesn’t show a major leaning of policy in the favor of the rich then I’m stumped. I’m not talking about class warfare and propping up the poor. I’m talking about keeping the field level for everyone. If it makes me a “treehugger” because I have a problem with that line of thinking then so be it.

(that was an example. I’m not really for universal healthcare. The prob could be solved in a WAY cheaper manner if the government were to force drug companies to quit GOUGING consumers/insurance companies. But the conservatives would have a problem with that too so my analogy still works).

Interesting stuff everyone. Rock On!

JohnFreakinG

JohnFreakinG,
Thanks for chiming in.
Parents huh? Although I am sure that the select few here are the model of proper parenting. I feel that job is pushed off on, teachers, coaches, clergy and grand-ma on a large scale. I understand for most households it takes both parents to pay the bills, if they still live together. Throw in a culture that has sold to everyone, that the way to happiness is, more things, faster things, bigger things and people are a slave to their job.

I agree with you 100% … if you have kids they should be your priority on this planet, but I just don’t see that happening around me. This would solve a bevy of topics if parents were strong role models. I could not agree more.

John G , I think we agree on the goals it is the path that gets us there seems to be the issue.
If someone can figure out universal healthcare that is fair to all I am in. If not …

I too think that Libertarian Party goes to far but that would be balanced by other parties in my opinion.

I don’t have kids so I will shut up on that issue and ask all to be loving , focused parents but I know this just isn’t happening on a large scale.
I am not bitching about healthcare, I just want a balanced way to go and I have never heard a plan that I find copacetic, and I do concede that drug companies have gone too far. As for the environment, you will have to hug the trees …I have allergies…

CARRY ON.

T

Hey John G

It’s funny to see a liberal whine about ‘voter fraud’ and ‘hatred’. Your ‘party’ hates freedom, productive citizens, liberty, middle class, plumbers, fair elections [ACORN], prosperity, patriotism, women, home-schooling, Christians, whites, males, heterosexuals and puppies.

Fortunately for you, puppies can’t vote.

As for your supposed gun ownership, good for you. It’s nice to see a socialist who hasn’t completely gone off the deep end……yet.

But my question to is this: When your party decides to disregard the Constitution [as it does regularly] and knock on your door demanding your guns, what will you do?

Things that make you go ‘Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm’.

More like things that make you go “WTF”?

Bill E wrote:

“Here’s hoping that Matt doesn’t find the organization that he is looking for, because the last thing this country needs is more hate, more fear, and more ignorance….”

Hate, fear and ignorance are the hallmarks of liberals/socialists/commies/homos.

Since the topic is suddenly about me, I’ll respond thusly.

I fear nothing.
I hate liberalism/socialism/communism/anti-Americanism.
I am very well educated.

The organization I am in search of will be organized and attended to by passionate men similar to the patriots who held a little ‘Tea Party’ a couple hundred years ago and will not be dissuaded by the liberal derisions of lesser men.

If, at some point you have a sudden surge of patriotism, you are welcome to join us.

Ah, the voice of reason returns….

Matt,

First of all I’m not a member of the Democratic party if that’s what you’re refering to. I’m just not socially conservative. I feel that EVERY taxpaying citizen has rights. From your comments I’m guessing that makes you think that makes me un-American. Of course I really don’t care what you think because I love this country every bit as much as you.

With that being said I’ll go ahead and address your questions/comments. Even though I’m not a dem I highly doubt that they hate freedom. Just because they don’t like to jump into crazy and expensive wars like the other party doesn’t make that so.

And I’m as hard working, middle class and hetro as you’re going to find so you’re wrong on that one as well. I won’t go over the rest of the items on your list becaause it just makes me feel silly even responding to them.

I will say this though. You are the classic example of someone who’s posed with a question and instead of answering it attacks the questioner instead. You really do belong in politics!

You’ve stated that you’re well educated. Here’s some reading material for you

http://www.openelections.org/recount/ohio_reports/

This link is regarding the recount of ‘04 that was caused by the Libertarian and Green parties. No they aren’t parties of homos so just relax. After you’ve read the FACTS then talk to me about how the Democractic party has the market cornered on rigging elections.

I don’t really care who does it Matt. Fixing elections just pisses me off more then any other issue that is spoken of. Why? Because I’m as American as Apple Pie.

And if you’re as American as you state you are then I’m sure that you took a look at your OWN party and SCREAMED bullshit. You probably didn’t though because you were just glad that your man won. That’s not being American dude that’s just being a plain old Republican.

Good for you. You’re a Republican. Congratulations

JohnFreakinG