I sir consider myself a conservative and for the sake of this election and the future of our country, a republican.

Very insightful piece. I agree with most of what you had to say. Call me a pet peeve though.

It is wonderful that we all live in country where we are free to have no kids, 1kid, 10 kids, an SUV or a roadster. Compare what we HAVE versus other nations in the world. I think we are on the right side of the bell curve. We also have a free market (or somewhat free for the time being). There are millions that don’t have the option to put their money in a 401k,a brokerage account, or an IRA and will have to work until they are dead. Sure, you can make the decision not to participate in the market, but most working Americans have chosen to in one form or another, and a great percentage of Americas wealth (see retirement accounts of middle class citizens, many of them with small cars and no kids) are tied up in shaky securities, and/or managed by financial institutions in the fray of the credit crunch.

I don’t want to pay off $700 billion in debt any more than the next guy, in fact probably less. I hate taxes and am a staunch supporter of the fair tax. However, let these financial instututions fail, and a chain reaction begins, eventually you will be effected.

Banks fail – retirement accounts go bye bye and become worthless. It becomes harder to get credit, not only for individuals, but small and medium sized business as well. These businesses can not grow, adjust, or compete without the lines of credit and loans currently available. Lay offs and downsizing continue, people buy less. The businesses that were not affected by the new IMPROVED credit crisis certainly are now because no one is buying their widgets(See: supply and demand. Lower demand equals lower value) Now the small and medium sized bussiness can’t stay afloat and are gone. The large businesses are under capitalized and their liquidity goes down the tubes. The value of the dollar turns into a peso. Large metropolitan areas become deserted and financial centers go away in favor of farms and ranches. It becomes easier to barter than to sell something for a buck, we all move to Kansas, stake our claim and start another dust bowl.

Indulging a bit…..Yes…..But I am not going to complain about the bail out. Do I like it? No. Do I accept it? I have to.

Mr. Miroslav,
Thanks for the reply. I too think that it is wonderful to live in a country where we are free to have 0, 3 or 15 kids. It is NOT however a FREE MARKET if I am forced by the government to invest in any business to “save” it. I admire the fact that you are willing to step up and do your fair share to help these financial institutions, kudos.
I am not.
I will however abide by the law pay my taxes thus render unto Caesar.

But given a choice, I would choose not to do so. I would encourage anyone that feels the way that you do to privately pool your finances and “INVEST” in these fine institutions. At some point later, I may wish I had joined in on these investments if you reap large rewards for your bravery! We will never get to see that end of my nightmare, because I will be forced to pay my $3000 plus dollars to save these boneheads.(Which I will do because I was out voted in 2004 and this is our system. I am no whiney sore loser.)
I have impeccable credit (no small feat for a musician-even with a wife in the real world) and I am also willing to take the risk that the trickle down won’t hurt me anymore than a crash into an SUV or the current New Kids on the Block reunion. Your business points are indeed correct for many Americans, that is why I will always stay with the thread of personal responsibility. As for Kansas … well at least they have a good college basketball tradition.

I have one final point, conservative is no longer Republican. It was a Republican President and the Republican candidate that drew the attention to this issue. I will not be so arrogant as to act like a financial whiz kid or to say for sure this is the wrong move for the majority of Americans monetarily, I mean the people that dropped the ball are the experts……
Truthfully… I do see your point though, if everyone moves from the metropolitan areas how will I ever find out what the mall people are wearing or score crack without going to the inner city.(In my small car!)

Thanks for the discussion!

CARRY ON.

T

I could not agree with you more. Republican is NOT conservative anymore. The party has abandoned it’s conservative roots socially and fiscally. Possibly I could have been a bit more elaborate on that point.

I am a conservative and RIGHT NOW a republican as Obama is certainly not the answer, and a 3rd party has no shot. So for now, John Mccain I support. I do not agree with the entirety of his platform but he is the best option that has a chance to win the election. Thus I will do all I can do which would be to cast my vote for Mccain and the MILF from Alaska with the funny accent.

In a perfect world, 3rd party is a great option. But as you know, our world is far from perfect. It would not be hard to convert to Liberatarianism, but that party is in TOTAL shambles.

You can compare this to my passion for SEC football (strange for a homosexual german dance remixer). I am at heart an Alabama fan (once again strage for a gay dude). In past years my team has had no shot at a national title, so I would find myself rooting for other SEC teams because they DID have a chance to win the National Title. I think Les Miles is an idiot, but I rooted for LSU both years they were in. So I love America, but root for McCain because he is our best option. Not because I agree with everything he has to say, but because he has a CHANCE.

True, our nation is becomming more socialist by the day with Michael Moore, Hollywood celebrities having cookouts with Chavez, and let us not forget the Trinity…..Pelosi, Reed, and Obama. This bail out could be considered a socialist move, however there is a precedent (see savings and loan crisis of the ’80’s and subsequent bail out) . Yes, that did contribute to the rough financial times of the early ’90’s, but it also allowed us to have the prosperity of the late ’90’s and early 00’s.

Taxes suck ass (yummy!). But remember, the government is buying (or WE are buying) securities. It is possible that these securities could eventually turn into revenue and cash flow. I do believe one of the main talking points on the bail out is the possibility of returning some of this money to the American taxpayers should that situation occur.

Rock on, and I would REALLY LOVE to meet you one day…You look delicious!

With all my glittery love

-THE Hanki.

Once again thanks for the reply. That is the attitude that we are seeking here! I understand your point of voting McCain/MILF, and as for the SEC football analogy… I pull for the conference any time they play outside schools but my favorite team gets my vote, and this year it is the 3rd place squad. I encourage you to help make the Libertarian party a viable option in the future. I feel that by voting 3rd party I am giving future generations a better chance. It is a slow process, but none the less one that I am committed to. I do feel that the bail out is socialist or at the least, a liberal ‘pick up the baby every time it cries’ move.
As for the GLITTER bring it… as for the love let’s stick to a simple political bond!

PS. In the past years??? No chance this year either, but for your sake… ROLL TIDE!

CARRY ON.

T

Dude, Jesus will come back. What’s weird is I don’t even believe in him. But he will be back soon. Why do I say this? Our true government, the Illuminati, will perpetrate a mass hoax by projecting a hologram into the sky that will be so realistic people will believe He has risen. Then we’ll have human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together… MASS HYSTERIA! Think about how many rights they’ll be able to trample on when PROOF of God exists and the Rapture has begun. Not that I believe in conspiracies or anything…

Diabolik,
Thanks for the reply….
All I can say is … well …. uummm.
Sounds like fun I’ll bring the popcorn.
HHHMMMM I wonder if they’ll need a soundtrack recorded. Just think, what a huge credit it would be to be able to say, “The rapture? Yeah I did tracked that at my studio!”.

Take your meds …

CARRY ON.

T

Well, this is the result of the meds, and that’s why I’ve decided to become a Scientologist and join in the fight against the evils of psychiatry which, funnily enough, involves jumping up and down on Oprah’s couch. Do you have any connections to her? Can you hook me up? She won’t return my calls…

BTW- I love the face painting chicken with the mohawk logo!

I agree that gays shouldn’t want to be acknowledged by a God that they don’t worship. The separation of state and church is constitutional, so all they need is a rich gay with an ability to speak and to WANT to get denied at the state courts and acknowledged by the Supreme Court. A little media coverage should fix that right up.
As far as gasoline goes…I also have chosen no children, small car…but I also have made a deliberate decision to live very close to every job I have had (in my adult life) and I walk much more than drive. This is not the popular lifestyle, thoug and an awfully large percent of those bitch and moaners are the ones who moved VERY far away from their downtown jobs so they could buy a MUCH larer house out in the suburban jungle. While some had altruistic goals in mind, it takes only a few words out of ones mouth to understand the difference.
As for Christianity, I am a believer…but I think a lot of people are so busy with being legalistic and pointing fingers and holier than thou, that they totally miss the point. I’ll NEVER ARGUE Christianity, but I’ll feed you, share a glass of wine and put you up for the night!
~Angel~

Angel,
Welcome thanks for the response.
I literally live and work in the same place… way lucky.
I think the god of the bible is a myth but I will also feed, share and provide shelter, that is called being a cool human. My parents are Christian and I am thankful to have been raised by people that live it… instead of preach it… my Dad is a minister however. Good on you!
I love to debate bible validity but I will respect a passive stance as long as it is never injected by the believer.

I urge you to read the constitution and point out to me where separation of church and state is outlined in it … Welcome and feel free to post here often!

Carry On.
T

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”

…with the right lawyer, defendant, and press coverage…it could work…

and PS…I didn’t say I was passive concerning the Bible…I said I’d never ARGUE the matter…I’ll discuss it all day long. *peace* Angel

and 1 more thing…sorry 2 be so choppy…not all cool human beings are Christians…but all true Christians are cool human beings! :0)

Angel,
That is translated as freedom of religion to many, not separation. As long as people vote their moral code dictated by a 2000 year old book there is no “true separation”.
Several laws here are religious based and out dated in my opinion. No alcohol sales on Sunday etc…(Note I say opinion… this is always subject to translation.)
Should a pagan be allowed to sacrifice an eagle if they believe it will insure safe passage to an eternal resting place? If that is their religion then separate it… see my point?
Recognized churches do not pay taxes, that is a special right granted by the government, so there is no separation there. As long as the Gov’t chooses who is and who is not a religion then it is Gov’t sanctioned and not separate.
On true christians….
The Crusades? Were some of these people not true Christians? Not Cool.
You missed out on the discussion on “Christian” as a definition, but I will point out that what you deem a “true” Christian is just an opinion as well as my view of a true christian.
The book that you live by states: “Judge not lest ye be judged …” see Matthew 7: 1
In direct contradiction it also states, “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.” John 7:24
To take it further… “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” John 8:1-11
Contradiction? look no further than: Ex.22:18 “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.”
We all know how that worked out in Salem… it took Christians to judge who was not a “true” christian….
The point is I think most “Christians” may truly believe that they are correct, but I may deem them not cool, and several of them deem me the same. I do not need a book to tell me what is right and wrong just a conscience.
Angel, this is not an attack, just a viewpoint, I am passionate about theology and it’s effects on the current
crop of believers. I will discuss with you further and respect your beliefs.

Carry On.
T

In my opinion,religion is responsible for more evil than good.Catholics have their young boys,and Hitler(can’t forget that).Muslims kill innocent people.Christians are just,wow,I don’t know…Witches,crusades,abortion doctor killers…what else?Tolerant?I think not.Not all,of course,but there’s some serious problems going on.Oh,yeah,snake handlers?What the…?I don’t know.I guess that I’m saying that I’m kinda glad to be a nice athiest.Hello everybody!!!

Addressing one at a time…firstly…you are RIGHT…it is all in the translation. Consider the 218 women who were imprisoned right before women’s suffrage was granted…there treatment was very UNconstitutional…and they were fighting for an ammendment which simply CLARIFIED that ALL citizens included women…therefore open to translation. If the cause is just and you are willing to die for it, there is a podeum and an audience in America…one of the reasons I am still proud to be a part of it. As for your attempt to tie the Bible together…it’s like I said previously…most people miss the point. You are trying to tie old code & new ones together…it only works through Jesus…that’s why it is separately called the OLD Testament and the NEW Testament. The Crusades were not about Christianity as much as they were Catholicism, and talk about no separation of church and state…during that time they might as well been one in the same…the point of the Old Testament was eye for eye, tooth for tooth, that God is JUST…the point of the New Testament is if someone slaps one cheek, let them slap the other…that God is MERCIFUL…but we could go on forever because it is obvious that you have your mind set, and I am not here to change it.

PS Again…the Supreme Court went back after the fact and said that all 218 ladies were innocent and had been treated unconstitutionally…the point is…the Constitution is pretty darned good, especially compared to its competition…but because inherently flawed, greedy, power hungry, proud, glory-seeking men & women are running the U.S., there will always be things to overcome…and so it is the same with the Bible…the Bible in and of itself is flawless, but then man is fctored into the equation…and so most people want to judge Christianity, and especially by its followers, who are also flawed…and EVEN THE DOCTRINE ITSELF states that some people claim to be followers but when it comes time to be called home, He is going to tell them to get away from Him because He doesn’t know them…and WHY doesn’t he know them I ask you? BECAUSE OF THE WAY HIS FELLOW WORSHIPPERS WERE TREATED BY THEM! It is ALL about the way you treat others…but people want to get legalistic and get hung up in semantics…and I suppose that may have been built in on purpose as a sort of filter, if you will…but enough…I know a backlash must surely be coming now…it always does when I tell the truth…

Angel,
No backlash, just more affirmation to my belief system …or lack there of.
No my mind is not set … but I am decently educated in theology.
As I said I respect your beliefs… but c’mon…
You are telling YOUR version of the “truth”… I could say that I told the truth and your response was “backlash”.

I can stay in the New testament and still illustrate the same point that I was making.

So did a different god “author” the old and new testament?
Was his plan changed half-way through? I thought he was perfect…
Catholics are not christians? Since the The Roman church was THE CHURCH at the time of Constantine’s Edict of Milan in 313, more than a few “souls” may beg to differ with you.
Fast forward to 1521 when Martin Luther a Roman Catholic was excommunicated and began his reform of religion to create modern Protestants.
Just for a reference point the 1st State declared religion was Armenia’s honor, it is argued that traditionally 301 A.D. is the date of this however most with an education in this field will tell you 314 was the year, only after Constantine’s swing vote declared Jesus the undisputed son of God.

You said:
WHY doesn’t he know them I ask you? BECAUSE OF THE WAY HIS FELLOW WORSHIPPERS WERE TREATED BY THEM!
According to your bible …I am assuming that you can only read English so we will run with the KJV,
the only reason for separation from god is: Mathew 12: 31-32 … “Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
“And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the {age} to come.”
This is also backed up by Mark 3:29-30 … both new testament books…

If you’d like to discuss the greek translation which is far more accurate I will be happy to do so.
Both Mathew and Mark are canonized in the Catholic and Lutheran Protestant Bibles …Mathew was also written in aramaic and hebrew according to some experts.
Angel, understand that I have no desire to change your beliefs I just find it astounding the lack of knowledge people have about the book (edited by Catholics by the way) that they live their life by.

I don’t think anyone here has ever disagreed that the Constitution is an amazing and wonderful document.We all can agree on that I am pretty sure.

Carry On.
T

Carrying on…I don’t have the exact documentation with me, but the Catholic Church has a few eye opening things aout it that most don’t know…like how the power to forgive sin is theirs alone & God only excuses those sin if the Catholic Church does…a lot of other things that can certainly be translated as blasphemy…and as far as education goes…I have a college education (am still studying in fact) but I studied the Bible completely on my own and more than one translation and more than one language and have read hundreds of books of other people’s interpretation of the Bible as well. BUT AGAIN…it is all semantics…even the devil used the Scripture in his temptation of Christ…don’t you remember? And so, if even the devil can use logic, which he did, and apply it to Scripture…then why shouldn’t man also be able to do this? Of course he can…and does…daily, really. But here is something that I think that you should ponder…in the Old Testament…”The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom”…which later on, of course, you come to understand means more reverence than anything…and in the New testament…”The only thing that counts is faith that expresses itself through love”…these are good starting places in my own humble opinion, for anyone willing to through the red tape out the window…otherwise, we are at an impasse…because the devil quoted Scripture…Jesus negated the devil using Scripture to defend the honor of its intention…the devil quoted, Jesus quoted…the devil quoted…Jesus quoted…round and round your partner-dose-see-doe…get my drift? My favorite way of putting it was in the movie “Passion of the Christ” I believe…Pontius Pilate is concerned about his decision and seeks consolation with his wife…he asks her what is the truth? She answers…if you hear it and don’t recognize it…who then can tell it to you? *peace*

PS I know I’ve made a few typing errors…for instance…I know I spelled “there” and I meant “their”…I also know I spelled “through” when I meant to spell “throw”…but I usually only edit English & History papers lately since I’ve had so many to do…but I tell you this because I haven’t found any errors in yours, not that I have fine combed them, just thinking from initial reading through…but some people are extremely judgmental about such things and especially when they don’t know what ignorant means…plus, I had to throw another PS in there…it was only fitting! :0)

And one other thing…and I will hold my peace…I didn’t say anyone said anything either way about the Constitution…I’m sure of it since I re-read to be sure…but I was making a point because you urged me to read the Constitution and point out where there is separation of state and church…and so…I had to go through the process of first showing where it could be loosely interpreted from and then to give an example of a case where the Constitution was also loosely translated and then even go further and give an instance when justice was denied because of ulterior motives, all to set up the fact that with the right power or sacrifice behind a JUST cause, I think anything just about is possible with our Constitution…it kind of made me feel like you were turning my words around…

Angel,
No, twisting of words, you may be being a little insecure, sorry,I must come off as condescending but it is not my intent. I enjoy discussing the bible. The constitution remark was saying we all should be thankful for a great document. I meant nothing more. No judgement on typos … I post in between sessions and make mistakes upon occasion myself.
You do realize that the book you read is a direct result of the canons of the RC church. I am quite aware of all of the lore that you are getting at, that is why Martin Luther left/got tossed. But if you check the facts in my post they are accurate, as far as I know. I will never argue faith … it is like telling a 4 year old there is no Santa or monster under the bed.
A common trait in any “faith” is when confronted by reason and knowledge it is labeled as temptation or evil. I will not offer you any nourishment out of the forbidden produce section. (humor)
Comparing me to the devil is a awesome to me. Keep in mind I do not fear your god or Santa Claus for that matter. I would like to ask your views on the “devil” if you want to continue… if not. I understand.
I am glad that you understand that I am telling the truth … maybe, just maybe, you are playing the role of Pilate and you just can’t hear it or read history and find the facts. Everything I am saying is history and in your chosen book of faith.

Carry On.
T

Angel,
So I wasn’t going to go here but …
You make the point that the devil quoted scripture to Christ as a temptation. (He was god’s fave remember?)
The new testament did not exist yet… and didn’t for a century or 3.
Earlier you say that the old testament was the old law to “christians” so what was Lucifer quoting?
Psalm 91:11-12 …
Christ returns fire with Deut… Old Testament … (this takes us to another gray area of the bible, that I will omit.)
Let’s assume that your God exists and Jesus was his kid. How hard would it be to stay steadfast to something you KNOW exists … that is NOT faith, it is also not very impressive. (Knowledge is the point here.)
If I know the outcome of a football game it is not very impressive that I root for the winning team is it?

Carry On.
T

Angel,

Welcome. First, I love that you tie the issues of conservation, demand for oil, the housing bubble, pedestrianism, living within one’s means, and traffic congestion all into my champion cause of New Urbanism. It gives tangible purpose to what others might see as my own niche idealism. While it is not the “popular lifestyle” in our parts of the country (in Georgia, for example, you don’t have a choice), people in our urban centers and countries around the world do it every day, and have for years.

As for religion, I agree with Fred: it is more harmful in the big picture. Our global conflicts arise from the charge to eliminate one another. American politics sink into this warped fusion of apathy and aggression because of Christianity—do nothing to better your lot, but bomb Iran! You don’t have to worry about conservation because a better place awaits you when you die. (Overreaching figurative hypothetical statement)

If you don’t ascribe to Catholicism, unless you’re Mormon or Gnostic, you have to believe in the Reformation. If the Truth wasn’t with the early Church, why was it dormant until the 16th century? I can respect the ecumenical Methodist and Presbyterian friends I have who can say the Hindu on the other side of the planet is not going to Hell. However, for those in the “non-denominational” (read: Baptist) superchurches dotting the landscape where I grew up, I believe it is arrogant to suppose a 500-year old belief system has a monopoly on absolute truth—especially with all the differences and contradictions.

As for “willing to die” for a cause, why is the sacrifice of life so deeply ingrained in us, but the idea of sacrificing anything else is that sneaky Karl Marx intruding on our freedom to not give a sh**? People would sooner take a bullet than downgrade to a home they can afford. People would rather get gunned down over Waziristan than own a vehicle that didn’t seat ten. People will have done their patriotic duty being blown apart by a terrorist bomb sooner than they’d pay a little more to let poor people see doctors. People will have had a more fulfilling life if they say a salvation prayer and die fat and happy, rather than those who did anything to benefit the world around them.

I agree that the ideal most religions reach for is the way we treat others. Our position toward others should reflect in our lives and our politics. If we love our fellow man as our brother, we would realize our common stake with him. Any ideal faces ridicule. This is the duality of our nature—to accept or agree with some things and not others. It is therefore natural for authors of belief sets (religion) to “foretell” discrimination. It is easy to eisogete a “devil” into the context of religious backlash—that’s an easy prophecy to self-fulfill.

“Postclaimer” (probably not a real word): The first maxim I’ve learned here is that intent and tone are never conveyed the way you want through text. People miss or take offense to what was meant light-hearted. Any of this can come off as strong, and none of it intended personal or dismissive. Angel, I sense you and I probably have more in common politically (not intending to make this a religious discussion).

Mike,
Welcome back, I think you me and fred all agree on religion being mostly damaging. I want to be clear for Angel and others … I think there is a god just not the one described in the bible.
Mike, follow this link you may get a kick out of the posts.

http://www.halfsigma.com/2008/12/short-post-about-mumbai-terrorist-attack.html#comments

…especially the Utah post.

Carry On.
T

I don’t mind religion,it is just that I find elements of it to be about power more than anything else.I do live by the one rule that almost nobody practices…do unto others.You don’t need anything else if you live by that.It sort of covers everything else.I mean,you wouldn’t strap explosives to yourself and walk into a starbucks,ya know?I do have an idea to stop terrorists by the way.My solution…If we find out who you are,we kill your entire family.what do you guys think?

fred,
I do think at some point DRASTIC measures will need to be taken on terrorism, realistically though, where do you draw the line in family annihilation? If your brother committed an act of terrorism do you need to pay the price?
Is there a line where multiculturalism is officially declared a failure or do we continue to soldier forward and have “faith”?
Carry On.
T

I’m not a kid fan,so it really doesn’t matter to me.Start with a favorite uncle,or mom for all I care.I really do hope that it would make a few rethink their (about to be)actions.Radicalism of all kinds,is just evil,but in a myriad of ways.It might make the 72 virgins thing a little less appealing,knowing that little akbar is gonna pay for your idiocy.Cheers,all!!!

Tony,
Multi-culturalism can exist if we eliminate the extreme fringe elements of institutions that prohibit it. What’s the alternative, aculturalism? monoculturalism? Institutions need regulations as much as I believe businesses do. (btw, I got a Korg M3)

Mike,
I agree, the institutions rarely by the letter prohibit it. It is generally the fringe individuals.
I can’t quite buy into fred’s theory, but something must be done, soon. fred, you have chutzbah, and I am not above thinking some terrible thoughts towards terrorists. I love what Russia did to it’s terrorists!
I will be the bad guy here and say that the India attack can and eventually will happen here, but our Gov’t has done a good job of suppressing the abilities of potential terrorists here.
Everyone will be upset by this, but … 1 thing I will give the Bush administration is keeping the a decent watch on our infrastructure.

Hey, on a different tip… is it me or does “Change” seem less and less likely with the same Washington Insiders being chosen by the President elect?
Still I will be patient and wait for the results… I’m just saying … an 82 year old being chairman of the economic panel… he worked for both Carter and Reagan… change?
He will be dead before we are out this economic quagmire.
Back to the buttons and edits…
Carry On
T

Hello?I’m not really serious,by the way.What I really mean,is that,when fighting an unconventional enemy,unconventional means are called for.I don’t have anything to add,as far as religion is concerned.Like I said,I’m athiest,so I don’t really care.If I hated god,or the idea of god(or seeing churches every 3 feet),then I might have a bone to pick,but I don’t,so I will leave you fine people alone for a bit.Cheers.

So much to address…but seeing where it is heading. So I will simply state this: My faith brings ME peace. I am at peace within. I care nothing for killing other people or politics, or semantics, or beaurocratic red tape, or agendas, or arguing over who is right, or logic based egocentriism, etc. In reply to your accusation of insecurity…touchez for this statement and how it comes across. I have been in the light of Jesus, I have seen several angels and I have more than a few miracles happen, even with non-believers standing by with their mouths on the floor. But at the end of the day, the only benefit is to myself, so perhaps it is a bit selfish, no? Except that the “do unto others” as mentioned earlier is precisely at the forefront, it simply confirms that if you are selfish, but also live by this rle, perhaps there is a different definition that selfishness, or insecurity. I will never understand EVERYTHING…in fact, I can say I tried and it drove me to the point of madness…literally. This is when He stepped in because I beseeched relentlessly…taking into mind the whole parable in the Bible about the woman who was relentlessly agging and got what she wanted for th utter exhaustion she imposed. I understand that you know your Bible well enough to know what I am talking about. And then, it is also good to know that in the OT, it states to lean not on your own understanding, but in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct your path…so our conversation is not going to end in either side being “enlightened” by the other…I just wanted to put my “2 cents worth in” (another Bible reference, eh? :0) But…if you want to know about my thoughts on the devil…OF COURSE the devil was quoting OT to Jesus, since NT was in its reation through Jesus…He was fulfilling prophesy as He lived, you see…so AT THAT TIME, it was so…but then Jesus died, and this is where the NT actually started, though it does lay down the history of it for several different reasons.
Also, you asked about faith and belief…see, here you have to understand that in the OT, God used to present himself to the people and was truly undeniable in this capacity…whether it was in the temple, or to Moses, or in miraculous acts that were undeniable, whatever was the case (even the earth swallowing people up, yikes!) But even before Jesus, Abraham was also saved through his faith…but so, what faith did he have? It wasn’t in acknowleding God, but in BELIEVING what He said…Abraham TRUSTED God, and that was faith…and is faith. It has nothing to do with if you acknowledge He exists, for even the devil ACKNOWLEDGES God. And so, don’t forget Jesus’ last words…something to ponder, don’t you think?
~Angel

PS…I’m loving that you actually employed the word “quagmire”…LOL

Angel,
So many names called out at those that you know NOTHING about… and you call yourself Christian… that is why I NEVER will.
If gaining knowledge and not having “seen” the characters from Lord of the Rings is going to send me to hell and allow others to enter, then fine… pass the marshmallows. (HUMOR)
Please do not get angered or frustrated, I am just finding out your thoughts on a subject of interest. We can disagree, I will never question faith as I said.
I don’t just know the bible, the koran, and several others have peaked my interest…
THAT is studying to show myself approved…
Did your god create evil? Did he create me?
Ps.. I don’t like puppies or kitties either.. (humor)
Let’s be cordial, deal? Stay and discuss.

Carry On.
T

Was jeebus’s light a hundred watt?I bet it was,he hasta go BIG.I’ve never had faith,and I feel bad about it,but I really don’t care,because I don’t buy the lie.I’ve suffered through church about 8 times,and it sucked.I would never have had to deal with that stupidity if it weren’t for my family,and a good friend.You know when you do the saturday sleepover,and you have to go to church in the morning?Well,I was a most unfortunate survivor of said indoctrination.I was so PISSED when my dad got saved.I actually said”so?…”.I never once,in my life,went to church with my parents,and they thought that I was angry.I’m not.I was trying to be nice,but I feel kinda “called out”,so I thought that I might as well go off.If there is a god,it has a shitty sense of humor.Miracles are for idiots,and praying is begging.I believe in this life(as horrible as it is),and I have no idea about the next(if there even is one).If people would live in the now,then a lot of our problems would be solved,because shitiots wouldn’t be given their reward.Just me thinking.Bye,now.

fred,
WOW… try a beer or 12 … you are only called out with love and worry over wanting to kill little Akbar.. just kidding… you are quite hostile.
Did you listen to heavy metal as a youth? (joke)

Hey all, any comments on the India thing?
Besides the obvious religion = violence and simplistic views.
I grow tired of god and gremlins…
Is anyone wondering if Hillary will go rogue sooner or later?
BTW the average IQ in Saudia Arabia is 84 … discuss amongst yourselves..

Carry On.
T

I love a beer or twelve.Akbar is safe,as long as Muhammed will play nice.If not,well,poor little Akbar.Ilisten to all kinds of music,and yes,I likes a number of the beast every now and again.I even have the story to back it up.I like curry.I was gonna go to India,but our tour was screwed up,so no curry for me.With an IQ like that,you can’t even be a greeter at Wal-Mart,can you?I even have a good story about that.

I don’t quite understand what you mean by the first part of your statement. But from the looks of it, I suppose that it is of no consequence, anyway…be done with it if it bores you…I will oblige.

Angel,
I do understand the stories that you keep explaining to me… at the risk of sounding more arrogant than I am, you do not need to explain any of it to me….I know the stories of the bible and most Dr. Seuss also… I am just challenging your acceptance of a book not your belief in god.
Quagmire… my 3rd fave word.

Let’s discuss your political stances, dem / repub / indie?
Who did you vote for etc…

Carry On.
T

I love Dr. Suess…I hate politics…the weather is chilly…it flurried here today, the first of the season…in Tennessee

But to effectively change the topic…I would really like to know what people think about Barack. Also…I’d personally be interested to also know what people are reading currently & listening to musically…?

Angel,
I am not a fan of Obama didn’t vote for McCain either I voted for Barr the Libertarian candidate.
I am giving Obama the benefit of the doubt and will not pass judgement on his administration until later. I feel he leans in a socialist direction which I am against and I feel we will see that he is just another person that sold a great brand as “Change”. I could be wrong in a positive or negative direction, I don’t know yet.

I am in between books right now due to a busy work schedule my last read was a re-read “Beyond Good and Evil” by Nietzsche, I visit it every few years. Musically I am listening to Concrete Blonde’s Mexican Moon and The Cure from new to old. I am recording a Christian pop album right now it is full of…..
ballads and hope.

Carry On.
T

I,myself.like Mr. Obama.It’s nice to have a leader that can form an accurate sentence.His policies,well,we’ll have to see about that.I don’t vote,because the lesser of two evils,is still evil.I do hate Sarah Palin,though.That eskimo half-wit is trailer-trash stupid.As far as reads go,I just finished Nikki Sixx’s”Heroin Diaries”.Funny book.I’m gonna go to a Christopher Moore in-store.He’s my new favorite writer-guy.Music?I’m listening to Queens of the Stone Age,Jellyfish,Sixteen Horsepower and Horatio Lee Jenkins.

OBAMA: Since I’m a believer of “trickle-up” grassroots power from the people, I believe what he’s already done is turn around the morale and motivation of most of working America.

He has already proven to be a more effective, visible communicator than our current president. I see his weekly internet address as the modern FDR “fireside chat.” For many, he’s restored what it means to be American.

The president-elect stayed cool and (mostly) above the fray during the campaign, and I believe he will prove the same during his presidency.

I believe he will rely on the counsel of his chosen advisors, much as Reagan did. To the conservatives, Reagan proved to be a leader even with the heavyweight advisors around him. So even with a few old hats, this is how “change” can still be effected. A leader can delegate and act upon the advice of core-competent experts, and still direct policy.

Presidents are CEOs. They are not only executives; they are visionaries who outline the plan and hire those who can fulfill it.

READING: Daniel Pinchbeck’s “Breaking Open the Head” and “2012: The Return of Quetzalcoatl”; Jared Diamond’s “Guns, Germs & Steel”

LISTENING: ’90s alternative nostalgia for cover shows, internet radio, new Mars Volta, Dream Theater, and songs by old, ugly people I didn’t pay a cent for (humor).

OTHER TOPIC: What does everyone think of the auto executives agreeing to work for a $1 salary as part of a bailout agreement? I suppose this gives them incentive to earn a profit margin?

Mike,
I hope change is more than a slogan. The jury is still out.
I fear that the expectations from the less intelligent Obama voters are on the ridiculous side of hope. Hard work and perseverance and clear thinking will be the only way out of this economic situation. On the flipside some McCain/Palin supporters would have “prayed” for the problem to go away much like centuries of rain makers. This is where I see the middle ground on hope. It will get better and worse in a cycle.
I think Obama will navigate this water better than our current POTUS, but I know 12 year olds that have proven to be a more effective, visible communicator than Bush.
I fear it may be business as usual in Washington.
I see Obama with a higher IQ but much more arrogant and self centered than Reagan was , thus more reluctant to take advice … but that is just face value as I obviously know neither, except for what I am sold.
I have hope … but it is with much reservation…
I am intrigued by how Camp Clinton will play ball… anyone else?

Auto bailout? Hell no…
Taking a dollar salary … I am more than willing to make 7 Million a year for ten years and then a dollar for a couple. Token gesture.
Lee Iacocca didn’t get a bailout, the government just guaranteed his loans, BTW interesting thing about Iacocca. He supported ‘W’ in 2000 and Kerry in 2004….

Carry On.
T

I think we agree that there are and always will be unintelligent voters on both sides. I think it’s also fair to say race swayed voters on both sides. As for the jury, they’re on a gag order and won’t even reconvene from its deliberations until Jan 20.

Each side feeds a bit on its own simple human emotion. I’d sooner have too much hope than fear. I’d sooner have the dwindling middle class believe it could accomplish something than believe all is lost. At least if you believe you have hope, you take the investment risks needed to grow. The conservative posture of simply being satisfied isn’t good enough when you have negative economic growth.

From everything I’ve heard through the campaign, Obama is a very deliberative Y-style manager. I can only hope this translates to how he governs.

Mike,
I hope he governs well also. The word fear in my posts should be read as concern…
Once again, I would like to point out that some ‘conservatives’ such as myself HAVE invested in growth this year and profited, I am making quite a bit this year and invested in a new branch of my entertainment company and I am already in the black in that department, so a blanket conservative attitude is as unfair as me saying all liberals are socialists seeking a free ride… you know that, it is just for others reading along.
I believe … in ME … and I am doing OK, and I try to help others in my business like you and other friends… fred … etc… not so selfish after all … self centered yes … selfish … no.

GUSTY…
I am still waiting for Obama to pay for my gasoline … (HUMOR)

Speaking of which, where is everyone that blamed the Bush administration for gas prices…
I haven’t them now thank the administration for the new low low prices … it has nothing to do with him… either way.

Carry On.
T

Tony,
I don’t blame Bush for high gas prices,but we all know his family we’re making a killing off of this misguided war.I have already read that OPEC will slow or cease production to bring prices back up.I’m fairly sure that they don’t like the direction this is taking.We’re all finally waking up to the fact that this is a finite product.It only took 20 years.And my thoughts on the auto bailout?Whoever made(and you people that bought)SUV’s,should go down in flames for being arrogant(and idiotic)enough to think that you could keep on behaving in that fashion.Seems kinda like what’s going on with Wall Street.
Mike,
I can’t believe you compared Obama to Reagan.Obama hasn’t shared a stage with a monkey.He’s only been photographed with him in the oval office.
Cheers!

Concrete blonde? Nice! Ironically, I too recently have been listening to The Cure…specifically To Wish Impossible Things…was having a nostalgic fit for some sad melodies,,,I am reading…wait, don’t be too shocked…Harry Potter and Georges Bataille…I know weird mix, and escpecially for a Christian, right? Anyway, also am in the middle of finals right now, so mostly just studting for those.

PS I love John Gusty. I worked with him @ Tower & I he was mellow & kind. My favorite mix! :0)

fred,
We have a Curious George look-a-like in the oval office next. (No that is not racist, it is an ear thing!)
I pretended that Pop-Eye and Curious George were the candidates this year. Voted Inspector Gadget.

Angel,
Gusty and myself slip away to the Bahamas occasionally for some, ‘cabana-boy’ time. if you like mellow and kind … well let’s just say that you aren’t in Kansas anymore Dorothy.

Mike,
I agree… race was an issue on both sides, but 95% black voters went Obama, if 95% of whites would have voted McCain …well let’s just say it would be Brutus and Whimpy in the cabinet.
I applaud the voters that went with their head and voted for the candidate that represented them as far as issues… on both sides.
The racial climate is not perfect but it is much, much better… ask anyone of color over 50. ( Ask some of your own family.)
Don’t you agree with that?

Carry On.
T

I really don’t know what you mean. All I meant is that I liked working with him a lot.

Angel,
Sorry, my sense of humor does not translate well to posts… you would have to be there…
I will never learn….

Carry On.
T

Here is what was on Dem. candidate Martin’s website last week before Tues.’s run-off.

“This race is about helping President-elect Barack Obama get our economy back on track and making the economy work for the middle class again. It’s time for change in Georgia. It’s time for a U.S. Senator who will stand with President-elect Barack Obama, not obstruct progress. It’s time for an America that’s united in our hope for the future, not divided by our differences. It’s time for us to win this race.
America has elected Barack Obama President, and now is the time for us to help him succeed. Saxby Chambliss has promised to do everything he can to stop Barack Obama from succeeding. We face the biggest challenges of the past 60 years – let’s work together to solve them. In the Senate I’ll do what’s best for Georgia, what’s best for this country, and what’s best for the middle class who’ve been ignored the past eight years.

I hope that you’ll vote for change. Thank you.
–Jim Martin”

I have read articles on this and some pundits feel that a ‘backlash’ for a more balanced Congress has already started. So put away your rifles militia men…

I just think it was GA voting it’s usual way… What does everyone else think?

BTW according to “yahoo” Tennessee, Georgia and Texas (wish Bill E still came around) are all in the bottom 10 healthiest states … a special nod to JGUSTY’s own,TN, for coming in 47th out of 50!!!

Carry On.
T

Tony,

I voted for Buckley in the general election and abstained in the run-off. My neighbor/landlord hosted a fundraiser there for Martin; I met him and was never impressed.

I’m a fan of divided government and an opponent of filibuster, so I’m torn. Filibustering is a child pitching a fit on the floor when he knows he can’t get his way. It prevents our senators from voting by allowing the minority to waste time. I just assume they’d strengthen the position of their argument and debate. This applies to both sides. I’m not a fan of the tactic.

Sure it was Georgia voting its usual way. I think the feeling of lost cause came over Democrats in the run-off much the same way it came over Republicans in the general election. As a result, I’m sure, many people stayed home.

[sweeping, incendiary exaggerations to follow:]

As for why these conservative-stronghold states are the least healthy in the country, it’s because much as with their politics and outlook on life, they do whatever they wish with wild abandon, from gas-guzzling to eating. They drive in their car everywhere, sooner sitting in a mile-long drive thru than spend a footstep to walk inside.

To them, what makes America the greatest country in the world is their freedom to choose to not give a sh**; the freedom to choose to leave little for anyone else. It’s the armchair lifestyle, and everything about it encourages slovenly stasis. Should we be surprised?

Mike,
Not surprised at all. I think it more of an eating fried foods, binge drinking and smoking thing, than conservative/liberal.
Most blacks in these states have a lower life expectancy, higher blood pressure and less medical care… they are almost to a person … democrat.
It is not always “conservatives” …. I do not see that as an issue here either way…
No one walks in LA and it is considered a very healthy region (minus the occasional coke binge)… CA and NY were dead center at 24 & 25 in the article I guess pollution balances against the suburban and rural areas.

Carry On.
T

Mike & Tony,
Wait a second,I’m not very conservative,but I don’t give a s**t.It really doesn’t matter who’s in charge,things are only going to keep getting worse.Do you know why?People,plain and simple.I think that that covers health,politics,whatever.As long as there are people,there’s gonna be problems.Save the planet,kill your selves.

Fred,
For you, the first step toward self-fulfilling Idiocracy.
http://www.vhemt.org/

Mike,
Yeah,I love those guys.That’s what I’m talking about.I’ll probably do it soon enough.I’ve already refused to breed,so that’s one for me,anyway.

Wow,
I haven’t been to that site in ages. Still funny after all these years.
Carry On. (or not)
T

Mike & Tony,
I just wanted you guys to know that I didn’t mean for you guys to kill yourselves.If you’re a friend of Tony’s,you’re a friend of mine(I’m pretty Kentucky that way).I just used their slogan.Sorry I didn’t clarify earlier,but I got busy,Cheers.

Hello?……..Anybody in here?………What do we think of Blagojojomommavich?…………..I’ll betcha Larry Craig is pretty happy right about now……….This mess totally relegates the gay sex thing pretty low on the scale,huh?……….I’m surprised that a senate seat is only worth 8 million.He just suffered the misfortune of being caught………………….They’re all criminals…………………..You know that the O has an idea about the character of this idiot……………….Well….there’s my 2 cents………….Next……

Another crook gets caught, ho-hum. Another sex scandal, ho ho.
Christmas is coming ho ho ho.

CAR CZAR?!?!?!?! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
CAR CZAR?!?!?!?!?!!?

WHAT PLANET AM I ON?

carry on.
T

The Car Czar can figure out what they were thinking about,by keeping up production of those pesky soccer-mom-mobiles.There’s a great idea for a dying time.Lets try to use up all of the last of the worlds’ fossil fuels all at once,just so they can be safe(while killing those annoying poor people in their soda-can-cars).I think you’re on Earth,man.Sad to say.

Allo,fellow droogie.I’m on a synthemescan radio.I wanna hear Devo do Mexican Radio!

Be A SPUDBOY!!!

GUSTY…
We miss you and will speak English when you return!!!

T

Someone charge the defibrillator! Clear!

I will say baby George’s got some lightning quick reflexes. Now, if he can just imagine a hurled shoe is a Category 5 hurricane, I might REALLY be impressed with his response time.